French ambassador to India Thierry Mathou tells TOI editors at a recent roundtable how his country is looking to widen bilateral ties, expand trade, attract more students and tourists and double down on the defence partnership at a time of deepening global uncertainty amid Trump’s tariff war and the conflict in Ukraine. Edited excerpts:
On India-France ties
■ Strategic autonomy is the core principle of French diplomacy and it is also the case with India. We have the same view on the Indo-Pacific. My president has always been very clear. We oppose any kind of hegemon in the region.
We realise that thanks to this strategic partnership, which celebrated its 25th anniversary two years ago, our common interest is really to work hand in hand in different sectors. That’s why we adopted a new roadmap when PM Modi visited France.
Defence and security really is the core of our partnership. We just had good news about the Rafale (M) aircraft. In the coming months and years, you will see more... Make in India is a priority for India and all our big stakeholders in the defence industry want to play the game. That means coming to India, building in India and transfer of technology. That’s the key.
What we have done through a new roadmap is to enlarge the relationship. We have three pillars. The first is defence and security. The second is what we call the partnership for the planet... issues like climate change and biodiversity protection. The third pillar is, for me, maybe the most challenging because it’s the key to long-term (ties): people-topeople exchanges. Indian diaspora in France is quite small compared to your diaspora in other countries. And one of the consequences is that the number of students in France is also very small.
30,000 Indian students in France by 2030
■ Our president gave us a very ambitious target, to very rapidly have 30,000 Indian students (8,000 registered for 20232024, 10,000 threshold expected to be achieved this year). We have created a mechanism for international classes and signed agreements with 35 universities. And in those universities, we have specific classes only for Indians ( classes internationales ).
We haven’t done this for other countries. So, we take Indian students at the end of high school, send them to those classes for one year (where) they will have intensive French learning and, at the same time, start courses for the curriculum they would like to follow. It means that after one year, there is no language problem.
French business schools now are among the best in the world. What is very interesting is that since last year Indian students are the top foreign nationality in our business school. For the simple reason that in these schools the curriculum is totally in English. It suggests that Indian students find France attractive. We have a different approach to student mobility. Our intention is not to attract hundreds of thousands of students. We want to attract the best. And we want those students to come back to India because we want our university partnership and student mobility to be part of our strategic partnership.
We have about 800 French companies in the country. They are already employing more than 500,000 Indians. So, we tell our Indian students, well, try to learn French but, if not, you go to France anyway to study and after you graduate, you come back to your country because your country needs you and you can help us develop this strategic partnership. We don’t want to facilitate any brain drain.
Trump’s tariff war
■ Well, I think the new American administration has brought to the international scene more volatility and unpredictability. I would say that more than ever the strategic partnership between France and India is the key. Stability is important. And it’s not a question only for govts, it’s also essential for the private sector. I see an advantage in this new situation... which is that once again partnerships like the one we have with India are going to be very important. We just had a historic visit by the European Commission president during which it was announced that the India-EU FTA will be finalised by the end of this year.
US push for military sales to India
■ My answer to that is simple. When it comes to transfer of technology, or rehabilitation of the industrial sector, you won’t be able to find a better offer than that from the French. Judge us from the past and from the present. And what you have seen so far is just the beginning of a long journey. Our Indian partners trust us. They know that our industry is here to stay, to invest, as I said, to produce, to make in India,
to do transfer of technology. I’m not sure that other stakeholders would be ready to do the same.
On end-2025 deadline for India-EU FTA
■ In Europe, we have rules not to put barriers in our market. As a matter of fact, the European market is the most open in the world.
It means huge opportunities for Indian companies. But, at the same time, we have rules which are there for everybody. Like for our own companies… protecting the environment, for example. It’s well known that we have a strong interest in the agri business, in exporting wines, champagne.... For Germany, it will be the automotive sector. India has its own interests. We have to sit around the table and look at all the parameters. I am confident that now there is political will on both sides for that.
On Europe and the situation in Ukraine
■ You have to understand there is one aggressor, Russia, and one country that has been invaded — Ukraine. An offer of peace has been put on the table and the US contributed to it. And Ukraine is eager for peace but not Russia.
In order to have peace, everybody has to come to the table, including Russia. But that’s not the case. Most EU countries now realise they need to take their future into their own hands as far as security and defence is concerned. I’m sure that in a couple of years, when peace is back in Ukraine, you will see a totally different Europe. Our dream, to some extent, would be to have this strategic autonomy at the European level, which is obviously not the case so far.
Strategic autonomy and European unity
■ The need for unity and autonomy is clearly shared by all EU members. Ukraine was a real trigger for all of us to understand that we shouldn’t rely on outsiders. Look at Germany. The decisions they have taken are historic. Like the next chancellor’s decision to invest massively in defence. The way Europe sees itself is changing. But obviously it will take some time.
On freedom of press in India
■ Having a strategic partnership and very close relations with India means that we talk of everything. On the French journalist issue, a solution was found. Both countries trust each other and that is the core of the relationship.
Easier Schengen visas for tourists
■ When you want to go to France as a tourist, we do our best at the Embassy of France in India to process the visa application in 48 hours after we receive the file. As France is part of Schengen zone, we are also bound by Schengen rules. We really want to welcome more Indian tourists, students, professionals.
On India-China thaw
■ Well, I think it’s essential for these two big giants in the world and in Asia to find a way to fully normalise their relations. What I said about India being a key for finding solutions to challenges like global health, climate change is true also for China. At some point, the two countries will have to find a way to not just resolve the border issue but also find ways to address the big challenges that the world is facing. The 20th century to some extent or the 19th century was the West’s century. Now, all eyes are on Asia. And you have two big players — India and China. We naturally wish they can have normal relations.
(This interview happened before the Pahalgam terror attack)
On India-France ties
■ Strategic autonomy is the core principle of French diplomacy and it is also the case with India. We have the same view on the Indo-Pacific. My president has always been very clear. We oppose any kind of hegemon in the region.
We realise that thanks to this strategic partnership, which celebrated its 25th anniversary two years ago, our common interest is really to work hand in hand in different sectors. That’s why we adopted a new roadmap when PM Modi visited France.
Defence and security really is the core of our partnership. We just had good news about the Rafale (M) aircraft. In the coming months and years, you will see more... Make in India is a priority for India and all our big stakeholders in the defence industry want to play the game. That means coming to India, building in India and transfer of technology. That’s the key.
What we have done through a new roadmap is to enlarge the relationship. We have three pillars. The first is defence and security. The second is what we call the partnership for the planet... issues like climate change and biodiversity protection. The third pillar is, for me, maybe the most challenging because it’s the key to long-term (ties): people-topeople exchanges. Indian diaspora in France is quite small compared to your diaspora in other countries. And one of the consequences is that the number of students in France is also very small.
30,000 Indian students in France by 2030
■ Our president gave us a very ambitious target, to very rapidly have 30,000 Indian students (8,000 registered for 20232024, 10,000 threshold expected to be achieved this year). We have created a mechanism for international classes and signed agreements with 35 universities. And in those universities, we have specific classes only for Indians ( classes internationales ).
We haven’t done this for other countries. So, we take Indian students at the end of high school, send them to those classes for one year (where) they will have intensive French learning and, at the same time, start courses for the curriculum they would like to follow. It means that after one year, there is no language problem.
French business schools now are among the best in the world. What is very interesting is that since last year Indian students are the top foreign nationality in our business school. For the simple reason that in these schools the curriculum is totally in English. It suggests that Indian students find France attractive. We have a different approach to student mobility. Our intention is not to attract hundreds of thousands of students. We want to attract the best. And we want those students to come back to India because we want our university partnership and student mobility to be part of our strategic partnership.
We have about 800 French companies in the country. They are already employing more than 500,000 Indians. So, we tell our Indian students, well, try to learn French but, if not, you go to France anyway to study and after you graduate, you come back to your country because your country needs you and you can help us develop this strategic partnership. We don’t want to facilitate any brain drain.
Trump’s tariff war
■ Well, I think the new American administration has brought to the international scene more volatility and unpredictability. I would say that more than ever the strategic partnership between France and India is the key. Stability is important. And it’s not a question only for govts, it’s also essential for the private sector. I see an advantage in this new situation... which is that once again partnerships like the one we have with India are going to be very important. We just had a historic visit by the European Commission president during which it was announced that the India-EU FTA will be finalised by the end of this year.
US push for military sales to India
■ My answer to that is simple. When it comes to transfer of technology, or rehabilitation of the industrial sector, you won’t be able to find a better offer than that from the French. Judge us from the past and from the present. And what you have seen so far is just the beginning of a long journey. Our Indian partners trust us. They know that our industry is here to stay, to invest, as I said, to produce, to make in India,
to do transfer of technology. I’m not sure that other stakeholders would be ready to do the same.
On end-2025 deadline for India-EU FTA
■ In Europe, we have rules not to put barriers in our market. As a matter of fact, the European market is the most open in the world.
It means huge opportunities for Indian companies. But, at the same time, we have rules which are there for everybody. Like for our own companies… protecting the environment, for example. It’s well known that we have a strong interest in the agri business, in exporting wines, champagne.... For Germany, it will be the automotive sector. India has its own interests. We have to sit around the table and look at all the parameters. I am confident that now there is political will on both sides for that.
On Europe and the situation in Ukraine
■ You have to understand there is one aggressor, Russia, and one country that has been invaded — Ukraine. An offer of peace has been put on the table and the US contributed to it. And Ukraine is eager for peace but not Russia.
In order to have peace, everybody has to come to the table, including Russia. But that’s not the case. Most EU countries now realise they need to take their future into their own hands as far as security and defence is concerned. I’m sure that in a couple of years, when peace is back in Ukraine, you will see a totally different Europe. Our dream, to some extent, would be to have this strategic autonomy at the European level, which is obviously not the case so far.
Strategic autonomy and European unity
■ The need for unity and autonomy is clearly shared by all EU members. Ukraine was a real trigger for all of us to understand that we shouldn’t rely on outsiders. Look at Germany. The decisions they have taken are historic. Like the next chancellor’s decision to invest massively in defence. The way Europe sees itself is changing. But obviously it will take some time.
On freedom of press in India
■ Having a strategic partnership and very close relations with India means that we talk of everything. On the French journalist issue, a solution was found. Both countries trust each other and that is the core of the relationship.
Easier Schengen visas for tourists
■ When you want to go to France as a tourist, we do our best at the Embassy of France in India to process the visa application in 48 hours after we receive the file. As France is part of Schengen zone, we are also bound by Schengen rules. We really want to welcome more Indian tourists, students, professionals.
On India-China thaw
■ Well, I think it’s essential for these two big giants in the world and in Asia to find a way to fully normalise their relations. What I said about India being a key for finding solutions to challenges like global health, climate change is true also for China. At some point, the two countries will have to find a way to not just resolve the border issue but also find ways to address the big challenges that the world is facing. The 20th century to some extent or the 19th century was the West’s century. Now, all eyes are on Asia. And you have two big players — India and China. We naturally wish they can have normal relations.
(This interview happened before the Pahalgam terror attack)
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